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Post by Hoist on Aug 15, 2011 5:09:48 GMT -5
In today's 4 for 4 we ask, "Is there too much expectation in the fandom these days?"
In Beast Wars some of the original generation of Transformer fans were put of and dislike the beast form, there is still a minority who utter "TRUK NOT MONKEY!" Armada was likened to Pokemon, but I'm not talking gimmicks here, Energon & Cybertron were what they were, but there was outcries over the teen titans look of animated characters, horror that Prime in the new movies had flames or that Sideswipe wasn't red, it wasn't a G1 movie after all. And there was much, much worse with the movies as well. This also extends into the comics and toys, leading me to ask:
Is there too much expectation in the fandom these days?
The shows after all, are aimed at kids, not the adult fandom. Yet Animated did both with cameos and references. The movies, could be argued as aimed at both but, again - expectation too high? When does criticism just become whining?
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Post by Neo Calrissian on Aug 15, 2011 6:14:45 GMT -5
You have a very good point there, Hoist. The makers of TFs have to try and come up with something new and exciting, don't they? Otherwise it would stagnate and we would lose interest. Their main objective is to sell toys to children, and with the 'robots turning into cars' gimmick firmly established as a norm, they have to tack something on top to make it seem fresh. We all wish it weren't so, but to be fair, they've also done the Alternators and Masterpieces, which are clearly tailored to an older audience. So I think you're right- sometimes our expectations are too high. It's not like we're ever going to get back to the beautiful, sacred, comfortable, gooey G1 center, is it?
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Post by Onix Solo on Aug 15, 2011 11:18:44 GMT -5
I definitely think that there is too much whining in the fandom. I'm not trying to sound stuck up or anything, but the majority of it seems to stem from the G1 crowd. I've watched all of G1, and while it was okay, in no means was it the greatest thing to happen in our hobby aside from starting it all ad giving us some interesting concepts to build on. Why everything has to be G1 is beyond me. There is a reason G1 ended. It had gone as far as it could and people lost interest. They had ran so much out of ideas that they resorted to non-transforming transformers by the end of the G1 run. We need fresh ideas to keep people entertained and coming into the fandom.
I think there are 2 predominant generations in the fandom right now, with G1ers and BW Fans, at least leading the charge. I find people who usually say "I got started with Beast Wars" or "Beast Wars is my favorite" are also the ones usually more open to the new. G1 fans like to make their voices known a lot about how they are doing a character wrong. I mean, sure, Sideswipe would have been nice as the red Ferrari from DotM, but then Sideswipe is freaking awesome as he is as the silver Corvette. Sure, Ironhide is usually red, but movie Ironhide is arguably the best Ironhide there has been (you know you felt more shocked about his death this time around than in G1).
So, I guess really comes down to nostalgia. A lot of recent characters are being given the same names as G1 characters and people expect them to be exactly G1. There is no doubt a demand for G1 as Generations has been highjacked by G1 homages where it was supposed to be a line where they could do anything from comic characters to characters from all the series. But let us keep it at that.
Now, I'm not saying BW fans can't be loud and unmoving in their own right some times, but it is usually complaints about how G1 something isn't.
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Post by Jazzman Crothers on Aug 15, 2011 12:45:59 GMT -5
This is a interesting thread considering the re-emergence of the Marvel comic. It'll be interesting to hear what fans of yesterday and today think of it.
I have to say there is far too much expectations however I can see why their is much complaining about certain things. One would be first impressions. Of course, to those who were fans of G1, Ironhide and Sideswipe are red, just an example. So when something as big as the movie comes around, fans look at characters and feel that the character isn't right.
Now as a G1 fan, I don't care that the movie wasn't pure G1. I don't like the movies for other reasons but I see a large G1 influence regardless and I think fans are missing those elements and complaining without need. Perhaps all the changes to the character would be forgiven if the movies won the majority of the fans approval, a far fetch things perhaps but just for the sake of my point lets pretend, then maybe G1 fans wouldn't complain so much, we'll never know.
Personally, I think any fan that complains really shouldn't. Transformers is doing good now a days. I mean, I'm disappointed in the movies and I didn't watch TFA cause it does nothing for me but I don't hate TFA. In fact I think TFA and TFP are a good thing and I'll support it first before I hate on it. Its winning new TF fans, it keeps the TF brand going and it has G1 influences. I see G1 in everything. G1 is always coming out on top, whether or not its done right for everyone.
Personally, I think that with all that is happening in the world of TF, a fan cane find the outlet they prefer and just shouldn't bother with what they don't like. Maybe their isn't enough for everyone's tastes, such as the adult fan or the BW fan, but I think fans need to remember that this is a toy-line where Hasbro will do whatever they think will make them have large sales.
So yes, I think there is too much xpectations.
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Post by Onix Solo on Aug 15, 2011 12:56:14 GMT -5
You gotta give Animated a go. So many homages and throwbacks to G1 and Beast Wars. Was the perfect series. Plus, Jazz is awesome.
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Post by Jazzman Crothers on Aug 15, 2011 13:15:46 GMT -5
The thing is, while I like that there is a TF show (when TFA was going I liked the fact that there was a show, now I like that there's TF Prime) while I love the toys, while I like the new characters, while I love Prowl's new design, while I can forgive large chins, I can't get over the corniness of some of the show. Silly one liners kill me and certain things kill me.
And don't get me wrong. The G1 had that too and while I have them on DVD, I can't bring myself to sit down and watch them either. And if I do, its when I'm working out to distract myself, and I often find myself saying "Good lord, did I actually take this seriously as a kid?" when I see something stupid happen in a G1 episode.
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Post by Onix Solo on Aug 15, 2011 13:44:13 GMT -5
lol, I get that to an extent. Beast Wars, especially the second season, has many of those moment that I'm just like "Really?" I just look over it though, because as a whole, I still quite enjoy it.
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Post by Jazzman Crothers on Aug 15, 2011 14:21:41 GMT -5
Yes exactly. Beast Wars is perhaps another example of why there is a lot of expectations. While it has it's corny parts and unrealistic parts, it was highly entertaining and their was a long term story running through out the series.
I want to check out TF Prime, but the first episode felt awkward to me.
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Post by Onix Solo on Aug 15, 2011 14:47:16 GMT -5
TF Prime has been pretty good, minus the 5 part mini series at the beginning. I was extremely against Prime after watching that. Thought it was crap., but I stuck with it, and the first season as a whole is great. So far they've not had much of an overarching story (the writers say Hasbro just wanted tot est the waters with the first season, and get you into the characters. They've big plans for the next season, with a more unified story) but the character development, superb. I'd say I really care about what happens with Arcee and Jack, Bulkhead and Miko, and Starscream.
But, that Beast Wars formula was quite prevalent in Animated. Each season had a nice overarching story that always climaxed at the end of the season. The final Episodes of the series are quite good (even if the ending was rushed) and Prowl's passing was quite shocking and really tugged at me. He was a well developed character, and made real changes through the series.
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Post by Hoist on Aug 15, 2011 18:30:10 GMT -5
The thing with animated is much like Armada, in the latter the minicons just became gimmicks and the actual show didn't get decent (IMO) - and I've said this countless times until episode 20, but it got better I think. What kinda ruined the first series of Animated was the human super-heroes, but as I divulged in another topic, no doubt it was for the small kiddies. Season two onwards of Animated was in my opinion, fantastic, bot just because of the homages, but the characters (Especially Sentinel Prime and his crew), the stories, the super-heroes were in only 1 or two at most episodes. By series three it was reaching great, great height paramount to Beast Wars. Again that's just my opinion though. I've tried (and failed) to keep up with Prime but I enjoy it. So yeah, perhaps just skip past the 5-part opener? Back on topic, there are some in the fandom who make me sad they call themselves fans, whining over the slightest little thing. If a fan has got criticisms as long as they voice them coherently with a reasonable argument, they it's perfectly acceptable as an opinion. There are some that just moan instinctivley about something without giving it a go, whether that be a toy line/figure/cartoon/comic or whatever. Unfortunately I don't keep up with the ongoing plethora of current IDW Transformer titles.
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Post by Onix Solo on Aug 15, 2011 18:53:02 GMT -5
The super-villains in the first season of animated were a failed attempt to try and make the Decepticon threat seem more immense. They realized that the human villains were uninteresting, and corrected on it in season 2 and 3. They were in there very little. Still, Season 1 of animated wasn't bad at all.
Back on topic. I agree about the complaining just for complaining. I've got the first 2 volumes of the Ongoing comics from IDW, and I've found them to be okay. I like the art style that Don started with them, a very G1 cross Movie look. Like how the movie characters might have looked if they stuck to a more G1 style. They are modernized and they look like they can move better than the bricks of G1. Yet, people complain so much about the designs like they are the worst they've seen. It baffles me.
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Post by Jazzman Crothers on Aug 15, 2011 23:48:43 GMT -5
I find the criticism of the IDW TF comics to be mixed. I come across threads that have positive comments then one that has negative comments. Its like those with similar views on the topic only posted in those threads. Of course its not like I've seen very discussion on the matter.
Something I forgot to mention in my last post, when I was explaining about how I understand why fans complain. Along with first impressions, its also change. Being used to something for so long, when it changes its not always accepted. So with the movie designs I can understand, but the IDW designs, well.... I hated the new style of faces. They looked like the faces of mummified corpses to me. But regardless they looked like modern G1 TFs.
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Post by Onix Solo on Aug 16, 2011 1:08:51 GMT -5
The faces do look crap. They are incapable of emotion, or at least they never draw them with any.
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alphaprime1
Minibot
Old Skool Original
"The lesser of two evils... is still evil."
Posts: 400
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Post by alphaprime1 on Aug 17, 2011 3:11:33 GMT -5
I give each new TF series an honest-to-goodness chance, and if I like it-- I watch it/buy merchandise/keep up on the product. If I don't like it-- I don't. No big deal.
For the record, I'm a G1 fan... have been for a long time. I'm very passionate about my love for the series; as are those fans who subscribe to the "Beast Wars Is Best" fandom.
I had more to write, but my mind has suddenly been wiped clean and I'm starting to drool...
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Post by Onix Solo on Aug 17, 2011 11:22:12 GMT -5
Saw my screen name and thought about steak?
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