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Post by Hoist on Oct 31, 2011 7:09:11 GMT -5
$ for 4 is back for it's new format with a new TF topic each week, to start with we;ll discuss this week, something synonymous with Transformers, the Death(s) of Optimus Prime!
In the first Transformers movie, the animated movie, Prime's epic battle with Megatron came to an end when Hot Rof interfered giving Megatron the chance to strike the killing blow. it is a well known fact that audiences didn't react well to Prime's death, so much so that in the G.I. Joe Movie - where Duke was supposed to die, it got changed so Duke survives. But it didn't all start here.
As far back as the original comics, Prime died rather stupidly by a game tournament with Megatron, the loder blowing himself up, he was also brought back as a Quintesson controlled zombie in G1, consumed and rebirthed by the swarm in g2, came back as a power-master, almost bought it at the end of the Beast wars whilst in stasis, briefly died in Armada, was killed in episode 3 of Animated before coming back and died in Revenge Of The fallen taking out half-a dozen Decpeticons!
So we ask you, how do you feel about the many deaths of Optimus Prime? Has it been over-done? - making home almost a Christ-like figure for the sake of a new toy? Which was the better or worst of the deaths, and is there any need to keep killing Optimus Prime for the sake of a dramatic moment? Should he ever be killed off permanently for a new leader?
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Post by Jazzman Crothers on Oct 31, 2011 9:37:41 GMT -5
Optimus' death has truly been over done.
I have to admit I like his return as a "zombie". That hit me hard as a kid and I think as a story its a solid idea.
Its lazy story telling on some IMO when OP goes and dies and comes back. It falls under been there and done that.
I have to agree that dieing as a result to what happened in a video game has to be the worst. It shows OP as weird sort of martyr of his beliefs.
I think his most interesting comes back would be after using the Matrix to kill Unicron in the comic. His Powermaster counterpart becoming OP was kinda cool and unexpected.
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Post by Onix Solo on Oct 31, 2011 18:18:50 GMT -5
It is one of the many cliches in the Transformers universe.
I think it varies on whether it is a good story mechanic or not.
G1 it was not. A ploy to get rid of almost everyone and replace them with an entirely new cast all to sell toys. There is no other way around it. He didn't die heroically or in a dignified way, he stood there and took two shots to the chest for no good reason other than Hasbro tagging him with a death sentence.
Optimus Primal's death at the end of Beast Wars season 1 was no better. A sort of flawed story line, and all to do a big (underwhelming) reveal of his transmetals form in season 2.
Primals death at the end of Beast Machines was equally nonsensical if I recall. I didn't quite care by tha time though, because they had already ruined the character.
In Armada it was also pretty dumb....It seems so far, it is all looking bad for this plot device.
Animated, I don't remember thinking it was too bad, but it wasn't necessary. He was dead all of 2 minutes though, as the key brought him back to life, so whatever.
Optimus Prime's death in RoTF I felt was spectacular. His battle in the woods with Blackout, Megatron and Starscream was awesome, and showed how tough he was. So, I guess it worked well enough in the movie. It wasn't like the other times where he threw away his life without a fight, or just stood there and took it., He killed Blackout, and messed up Starscream and Megatron. It was the best battle in the trilogy. What the final battle between Megatron and Optimus should have been in DoTM, just with Optimus being victorious.
So, I guess, as a plot devise, it has mostly been poorly executed.
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Post by Jazzman Crothers on Nov 13, 2011 19:48:00 GMT -5
I have to disagree with OP's movie death. Sure they wanted to sell more toys so lets get rid of the current leader. But besides that lets look at it differently. Prime dies after the Decepticons lay Autobot city in ruins. The hero saves the day, though he's very late. And sure maybe it's unrealistic that he did it by himself but one could argue that the Decepticons were now very tired and low on energy.
But anyways, the scene was set and Prime goes up against Megatron is what suppose to be the last time. They battle many times before and never got to killing each other as they did her, and they seem to be able to damage each other really badly in what, 2-3 minutes?
It was still a wicked show down. Dramatic music, better animation then what the fans got before and the dialogue was awesome. "One shall stand, one shall fall." and my favourite, "...I thought you were made of sterner stuff." Prime's first death was the best and I don't think a lot of kids saw it coming at the time. And it was a good set up for OP to return, controlled by the Quintessons.
Now looking back, Prime came close to death in the show when the Seekers messed him up, only to have Laserbeak attack him on the operating table. The race to save OP was an awesome episode.
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alphaprime1
Minibot
Old Skool Original
"The lesser of two evils... is still evil."
Posts: 400
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Post by alphaprime1 on Nov 19, 2011 4:32:54 GMT -5
I will never forget watching TF:TM when it came out, sitting there in the theater having a grand ol' time... and then: WHAM! Optimus Prime died. That was brutal! Never had it ever crossed my mind that my favorite character and a being I considered a hero (I wrote a fourth grade paper on why Optimus Prime was my hero) would die during the movie.
That will always be the most dramatic Prime death in my humble, old-school, set-in-my-ways opinion.
I remember reading the comic where Prime died and, while thinking it was pretty stupid to give up his life because he "killed" innocents in a freaking video game, I respected his devotion and morals.
When it comes to being overdone, I rank "Prime Deaths" right behind "The Return of Unicron" as far as plotlines go.
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Post by Hoist on Nov 21, 2011 7:24:12 GMT -5
Optimus Prime's death in RoTF I felt was spectacular. His battle in the woods with Blackout, Megatron and Starscream was awesome, and showed how tough he was. So, I guess it worked well enough in the movie. It wasn't like the other times where he threw away his life without a fight, or just stood there and took it., He killed Blackout, and messed up Starscream and Megatron. It was the best battle in the trilogy. What the final battle between Megatron and Optimus should have been in DoTM, just with Optimus being victorious. That was probably my favourite bit of the movie, amazing fight, the "I'll take you all on", Optimus shows he was bad-ass - for a good guy of course! As I've said before, in DOTM it was too quick - the battle and did just come across as tapped on and "let's kill him off at's it's the last one" I have to disagree with OP's movie death. Sure they wanted to sell more toys so lets get rid of the current leader. But besides that lets look at it differently. Prime dies after the Decepticons lay Autobot city in ruins. The hero saves the day, though he's very late. And sure maybe it's unrealistic that he did it by himself but one could argue that the Decepticons were now very tired and low on energy. I think on that bit, one of my favourite bits, after "Megatron must be stopped no matter the cost." where he drives, transforms ans shoots disabling several Decepticons; you have to distend disbelief for a moment. Like in a fantasy/kids movie or when something extra-ordinary happens, it might not be realistic, but you have to go with moment, the magic of the moment and suspend reality and practicality. (?) I love the moment after the light sword when Megatron lauches up and comes down to recieve a big Prime fist to the face/chest, then Megs is on his back and Optimus tries to jump at/on him and Megs closes both legs and kinds drop kicks him. With him coming back as a zombie Quintesson controlled Prime it was also a good set-up for Rodimus handing the matrix back and feelings of inadequacy of being leader and foolwing in the big footstep. I just about remember that, can you remember which episode it was?
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Post by Jazzman Crothers on Nov 21, 2011 7:49:26 GMT -5
I just about remember that, can you remember which episode it was? "Divide and Conquer" Season 1, episode 3 and the 6th TF episode to air since More then Meets the Eye. Written by Donald F. Glut. Aired October 20, 1984 The Autobots prevent the Decepticons from harming a weapons factory, but at a heavy price: Optimus himself. His life is on the line, but Wheeljack knows exactly how to save him before it's too late. Problem is, the required part is back on Cybertron in his old laboratory. Bumblebee, Trailbreaker, Bluesteak, and Chip Chase leave to save Optimus. Without Optimus Prime in command, the Autobots are left vulnerable as Megatron hatches a plan to destroy the team on Cybertron.
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